Speak Honest Podcast: Real Talk on Relationships, Attachment Styles & the Work of Healing Childhood Trauma
Are you ready to heal your attachment style, master healthy communication, and create secure, fulfilling relationships? Subscribe now to uncover the secrets of secure attachment, navigate the challenges of trauma recovery, and improve your communication skills in love and life. In each episode of the Speak Honest podcast, we’ll dive into attachment styles, emotional healing, and proven strategies for deeper connection. It’s time to break free from the cycle of heartbreak and start building the relationships you deserve.
Speak Honest Podcast: Real Talk on Relationships, Attachment Styles & the Work of Healing Childhood Trauma
77. Parenting Through Divorce Without Losing Your Mind (or Your Identity) My Conversation with Vivian Meraki
Can you really be a great mom without losing yourself in the process?
In this heart-opening episode, I sit down with parenting expert and somatic coach Vivian Meraki to talk about what it really means to parent through divorce. We unpack the pressure to be the “perfect mom,” the guilt that often follows us after a breakup, and how somatic awareness can help us show up for our kids and ourselves. Whether you’re navigating co-parenting, starting over, or just trying to hold it together, you are not alone. Vivian brings so much wisdom, warmth, and practical support to help you redefine motherhood on your own terms.
You might want to listen if:
- You feel like you’re constantly self-sacrificing and losing parts of yourself as a mom
- You’re trying to break generational parenting patterns but don’t know how
- You’re struggling with guilt or shame after a divorce
- You want to model confidence, resilience, and self-trust for your kids
- You’re curious about how somatic practices can support emotional healing
About Our Guest:
Vivian Meraki is an award-winning speaker, bestselling author, and trauma-informed parenting expert who helps parent leaders break generational cycles and deeply connect with the people and things that matter to them. A former corporate leader across startups, agencies, and consultancies—including the United Nations and several healthtech companies—Vivian left burnout behind in 2020 to say yes to a different kind of success: one rooted in self-trust, emotional safety, and connection that lasts.
Links:
FIND OUT MORE!
- Apply for FREE Coaching with Jenn
- Join the DANCE CIRCLE - Get updates on Jenn's debut book "Dance of Attachment"
- Join our FREE Community! Speak Honest Facebook Group 🧡
- Become a Relationship Reboot Member and access all you need to become secure.
- Schedule your Free 30 min Attachment Assessment with Jenn Today!
- Watch Jenn on the 🔴 TEDx Stage!
- Download your free Workbook: Dance of Attachment
- Visit www.speak-honest.com to learn more
- Follow Jenn on Instagram: @speak_honest
- Like the episode? Please write a review, your words help others find us!
DISCLAIMER: Speak Honest podcast content is informational, not professional or medical advice. Jenn is an ICF relationship coach, not a licensed therapist. Consult health ...
Hello and welcome to Speak Honest. I am your host and certified relationship coach, jennifer Noble. It has been my passion for over a decade to help women like you heal what's been holding you back from having the relationships you deserve. Are you struggling with a relationship where you can't seem to voice your emotions, needs and boundaries without having it blow up in your face? Then you have found the right podcast, my friend. Get ready for practical tips, empowering truths and honest conversations. Now let's dive in.
Speaker 1:Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of Speak Honest. I am Jen Noble, your go-to relationship coach, and on today's episode we are just going to dive right in. I have one of my clients here today with me, cheryl, and I'm so excited to get started in this conversation Because when Cheryl and I were talking about you know she wanted to come on the podcast, she wanted to get coached for something, but she wasn't quite sure she has this question and this question and this question session and we thought to ourselves why not just do a pick my brain session? So we're going to go with some rapid fire questions. Cheryl's going to ask me any and everything that is on her mind. You promised me you're going to do that right, cheryl? I promise Okay. Good, she's going to ask me anything. She's going to hit it with me If I don't know the answer. I'm just going to be honest about it.
Speaker 1:But I think this is going to be really fun, because I think it's really important for us to see that we don't need to even have all of the ideas in our head to come on here and get coached. We just need to have some questions, and that's what it's all about. And so if you're out there right now and you are wanting to come on to the podcast and get coached, then all you need to do is scroll on down to the show notes, click on the link to apply for the podcast and you can ask me anything you want as well. You and I will spend some time together, you'll come on the podcast, you'll get coached and then you'll be able to not only help yourself, but help a community of women who will be listening as well. So if you're going to get something out of this conversation with Cheryl today, then just imagine how much someone else might get out of your conversation. So, with all of that said, cheryl, let's go ahead and dive in. What is your first question?
Speaker 2:So my first question, I guess, is struggling with how to word the question. But I guess I just noticed in my life because there was a lot of trauma in childhood. When I meet somebody in a new relationship, whether that's a friendship or a dating relationship, I tend to relate to people who have had a more similar background to me and people that have had these very healthy families growing up and, you know, didn't have that trauma. I just can't relate to them. And so it's like, even though I've been doing this healing work and, you know, working on my attachment style, I find that no matter how much healing I do, I still can't relate to those people.
Speaker 2:And so when I have that relationship then it's like, for example, if you have two people with disorganized attachment style, you're going to struggle a lot more and so sometimes those relationships just don't work because between the two of you there's too many wounds, there's too many issues that can come up, that can damage the relationship. And yeah, I guess I'm just kind of struggling with how to like. When I meet somebody, I often feel very open telling somebody who's had a history like that about my childhood. But if I meet someone that has had a very healthy childhood. I find myself very avoidant then because I am like embarrassed, and so I guess I'm just kind of wondering like how to try more with those kind of relationships and not feel that like shame.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean that right there, because, as you were talking so at first, I kind of wanted to say if this is something that's important to you, then we work through it, right. If you want somebody that has also been through trauma or childhood issues in your life and that's something that's important, you know, maybe it's part of your spirituality, your values, your morals, all of that, that's a beautiful thing. As you're still talking, I did kind of pick up on those kind of red flag words, so to speak, which is to say you feel embarrassed or you feel shame. So I would want to start there and I would want to ask what's coming up for you? Thinking about telling some secure man, someone who had a good set of parents, one of those people. They had a happy life, they liked their siblings, all of this stuff happened. They are out there. It is wild, but they are out there. And what is the shame behind that? Like, tell me more about that.
Speaker 2:I guess I just feel like they could never really get it. And so then I find myself kind of I don't want to say writing off the relationship, but kind of having that assumption that they wouldn't get it, and so then I don't even want to tell them.
Speaker 1:What if I just challenged that? What if I said that's actually a disservice to the person? So let's just challenge it real quick, not dismissing your feelings at all. I think you are correct to an extent. I think there's a lot of people out there that just wouldn't get it. I really do. But let's say, there are some people. Maybe they have seen other people go through stuff. Maybe they've seen their cousins or they've had a best friend. Maybe they, you know, took in someone and they saw what happened in their life. So they're, they have the empathy to be able to understand what's preventing us from talking to that person Really nothing is preventing it.
Speaker 2:I guess it's just I don't know, it's just really hard for me. Like I feel like you can just kind of you can tell who's going to get it and who's not, and like yeah, I just know it's a struggle I have because I it's not like I'm intentionally going out looking for people who have a similar background. But when I look at the history of my friendships and you know, romantic relationships I just find that it's been so much easier for me to bond if I know that they had something similar.
Speaker 1:Well, that's a really good part to stop down on as well. It's easier to bond. But what if we challenge that, Because that's something that we talk a lot about in the relationship reboot group is we do talk about kind of shaking this idea of what we think is a bond or what is chemistry. You know, if I've had that conversation before, maybe we could get into that later too. Right, what is this connection with someone? And I would say, just based on my knowledge, my training, my expertise, my own personal situation, I would want to challenge us in that and say this bond that you think you have with somebody with trauma, is it really a bond or is there just a level of familiarity happening there? Right, yeah absolutely.
Speaker 1:And so if you found this secure guy let's say you found someone. Let's say you're on Bumble and you're swiping and you found some guy and he likes his mother and his dad is still around and he played catch with him as a kid these freaks that are out there that had good childhoods and let's say you're dating this guy then I would encourage you to just keep staying in it, because to an extent that's a little bit of our avoidant attachment kind of popping up and coming out and saying, well, they would never understand me, I can't ask them for things that I need because they would never understand what I'm going through. Such an avoidant attachment thought process. They would never understand. You can't understand me, you don't even understand.
Speaker 1:I mean, to some extent too, there's even a potential where you're talking with friends and they haven't been through what you've been through and you start trying to explain something and they either try to help or maybe they're explaining their situation and you kind of shut it down immediately, thinking you don't get it, you don't get me, yeah, yeah. That is actually a protective mechanism inside of us. We don't want to let them in. So how does that land when I say that?
Speaker 2:I know that you're right. I just I don't know how to like stop that.
Speaker 1:Well in that regards, yeah, Stop that. Well, in that regards, what I would encourage us for right now is to not worry about it in theory and wait for it in practice. Does that make sense when I say that? So as soon as you find that secure man that you want to start dating, let me know, and then you and I will start working through that together, because truly, there is no theoretical way to work through this.
Speaker 1:In your mind you got to just put yourself especially for an avoidant and I know you're disorganized, but both of us kind of disorganized, attachment, lean, avoidant, earning, secure in so many ways. You've come so far, truly, and in those ways, looking at, what is it that you want in a relationship long term, what kind of relationship is it that you want? Go out there, start meeting those types of people. Term, what kind of relationship is it that you want? Go out there, start meeting those types of people and then, once that hits, once the pain hits, once the fear hits, once the Jen I tried to tell him something that happened to me, he just couldn't understand hits. Then we decide. But we don't just write them off because we assume he's not going to be able to get it. He might surprise us, and that's what I would encourage us to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what you thinking. Yeah, even hearing you say that it just kind of is I don't know. And I guess I never, like you said. You know we lean avoidant, but I just I guess I didn't realize that in the past because you know, when you're with people who are more avoidant than you, you don't really see it. But you're right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and that's just that protective mechanism that's inside of us. So, again, I want us to to not beat that part up. You know what I mean. I want us to not like, think like, oh, I hate this part of me, can't she just go away? You know all that kind of stuff. And instead I wanted to just look at, okay, this part. When we have a disorganized attachment and we are swinging into our avoidance side, the key as an avoidance in that moment is to stay, it's to hunker down, it's to ground ourselves, it's to anchor and it's to not be afraid. It's not to flee. Anxious is a different thing. Right Over here, we need to not attach so much. We need to let go. We need to live our own life Over here, on the avoidance side. We're good at living our own life. We're good, we're fine, we don't need anyone. So that's what I'm encouraged. So how is that kind of in that question? Do you have any other questions around that? Do you want to move on to a different one? Does that kind of help explain?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that does I mean. I get what you mean that it's something that you need to practice in the moment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Actually, something just came up for me. Can I pick this back up this conversation? Yeah, of course. Do you have any friends in your life that you would consider secure, that you have, that had a good childhood or anything like that?
Speaker 2:Not like fully secure, but you know it's a, it's a spectrum and I would say like secure, leaning slightly avoidant. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, I would encourage you to practice. So one of the things that I really like doing, I like doing myself, I like telling my clients to do is don't start with the big romantic relationships, don't start with family, right, don't start with like the eye of the tornado, so to speak. Start small, like find like a secure co-worker, find a secure barista that you found behind the counter, and like don't trauma dump on them, please, but like find someone in your life. And if that, and if you don't have anyone, then I would even start us there, like so let's see where we can go. Maybe there's a meetup group. We can meet up and we can start meeting other girls and we can start meeting other friends and we can start trying to see oh hey, here's somebody, here's somebody that I would like in my life.
Speaker 1:They seem secure. Let me inch into this belief that I have that they won't understand me. Let me see if they do. And this is a long process, right, and this isn't something that you're going to go out this weekend and do. This is going to be months in the process, but it's a starting point to get you to an exposure workplace to start practicing what it feels like to share parts of yourself with someone who might not understand, but in sharing that, you allow them to see a part of you. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Actually, when you said trauma dump, that like made me think. Like, because you might think, oh, I'm going to share the good memories, you know to start out, but when you have so little or so few good memories, you think to yourself, if I tell them anything about my childhood, it's going to be seen as trauma dumping, you know. But you also, you also don't want to avoid the question if they ask you about childhood memories and so, yeah, it just kind of. It's a kind of weird place to be in sometimes.
Speaker 1:For sure, and it just is, and so kind of even just learning that part and learning like you could, or even just saying like, eh, I don't really feel like talking about my childhood, just saying that that's an okay thing to say. So, yeah, all right, great, well, I love that question so much, and if anything else pops up around that like, let me know, well, where else are you going with this in your mind? What other questions you got?
Speaker 2:I guess nothing else on that topic I would say Maybe not a specific question, but just something that you know you had mentioned recently that I made me think of is when you are just have a disorganized attachment style and you notice that you are pushing someone away or someone's pushing you away, I kind of struggle with like what's the more secure thing to do and I know you said you know that what's the want behind it.
Speaker 2:But is it kind of better to pursue sometimes, if that is the want or if you know that I'm sorry, I'm trying to think of how to word that no, this is good.
Speaker 2:Like if you know that that person is in an unhealthy space with their attachment style in the moment, do you kind of just kind of let them have their space and figure it out on their own and kind of give them time to kind of realize, because I've done that in the past, like I've acted in unhealthy ways with my disorganized attachment, and then when I sit with that, like if somebody had tried to explain to me in the moment, I don't think it would have worked, like it wouldn't have, because I'm, you know, too triggered in that moment.
Speaker 2:So sometimes I struggle if I know somebody is doing that to me, like pushing me away, I get in my avoidance side and I'm like, okay, I'm going to leave you alone. You know you take your time and you know you come to me when you're ready. But then I hear these stories like yours, that it's like sometimes it is better to keep trying, and I know when I'm in that spot and I'm being the one pushing someone away, I would want them to keep trying. So I guess my question is just kind of like how do you decide what's the right move, or you know what's needed in that situation.
Speaker 1:So I'm kind of hearing you ask, let's say, you're in a situation and someone is shutting down or they're pushing you away or they're kind of getting in some sort of triggered state, and so I'm hearing you ask what do you do in that moment? Is that right? Yeah, how do you know what's the right move? Yeah, well, I would say, how do you know what the right move is? Ultimately going to be really difficult to say in a theoretical world, because this is going to depend. Is this someone that's incredibly important to you? Is this somebody that you have years invested in this relationship? Is this the first time this has ever happened? Is this a chronic problem? Did see like situational. It's going to be completely dependent. So if you have a situation, I can talk it through. If it's theoretical, then what we would want to do is look at all of those things and remember how, in the program, one of the very first things, very first thing we do, module one is I make you guys put out your goals and intentions right. And that's why is I make you guys put out your goals and intentions right? Yeah, and that's why, because without a goal or an intention, we get bogged down into the weeds of what's right or wrong and what's right or wrong is irrelevant, and you hear me say this all the time but there is no secure action. It is the intent behind what you're doing.
Speaker 1:So if you're leaving someone alone because you trust them and you love them and you're having compassion for them alone, because you trust them and you love them and you're having compassion for them, and in the moment you're leaving them alone, you're having grace and understanding and you're checking in on them and you're just making sure it's okay and you've had that conversation. That's very secure. I would love that you know. Just to say like, yes, please take as much time as you need, sweetheart, I'm here for you as soon as you're ready. If you're leaving them alone and in the time apart, you're thinking that fucking asshole, I can't stand him. I never want to see him again. When he comes back to me, he better be on his knees Apologizing. In that moment You're leaving them alone both times, aren't you? But the energy is very different isn't it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. And so that's what I would encourage. I would encourage to really just dig into what is the ultimate goal. Do you want to stay with this person? Do you want to make this work? And I'm always down. I'm always down to make the hard relationships work. I will never be the type of person to say leave him or leave her or don't be a part of this. Like, if you want to make it work, we're going to make it work. But that means sometimes we're going to have to get outside of our comfort zone. And that means, yeah, if they are shut down and they ask for space, then we need to check in with ourselves. Are we truly okay with it? Maybe you're okay with three days, not three weeks, and we learned how to communicate that, and that's the secure way to kind of hold space for those persons. So tell me what's landing for you there.
Speaker 2:I mean that all makes sense and I guess if it is someone that you've known longer, you can tell generally what to do. But what if it's somebody that like is newer to you and you're not sure, great, so let's break this down.
Speaker 1:So someone's newer to you, you're not sure what they need and in this situation, what happens Like?
Speaker 2:give me like a hypothetical, you can tell that it's obvious fear from a disorganized attachment style, but they are just, every time the fears come up, just wanting to completely end the relationship. When do you be like, okay, this wasn't meant to be, and when do you be like, no, I should probably try a little harder to show them that I care and to ease those fears.
Speaker 1:Well, again, I'll say, both of those things could be happening at the exact same time. You can show them you care and still have boundaries around what's going on, like, let's say, for example so there was a client I had and she had a chronic state of constantly threatening to break up with her husband. It's just basically it's how she got him to do what she wanted, to be honest. But you know, she didn't like it very much and he's anxiously attached and she leans a little bit more avoidant. So she was just constantly kind of like you know, if you don't do this, we're going to divorce Years and years and years and years of this. But in this moment, you know, he's just kind of bending over himself trying to win her back all the. If she's acting like that, the secure thing would be to say listen, sweetheart, I love you so much. I'm in this for the long haul. I'm ready to work on this, I'm ready to work with this, but you cannot threaten divorce with me anymore. That's just not going to happen If you do that again, you know, and then we'll have to come up with what would the boundary be. And then we help have to come up with what would the boundary be. And then we help them and they threaten it with divorce again or breaking up or whatever it is. And they, you know, they say they're scared or they say they don't think they can do this anymore. And you say, hold up, it's happening again. What's going on for you? And now do you see the energy in which I can have that conversation? Why? Because I'm not taking it personal. Them breaking up with me is not about me, it's about their fear. And that's the place we want to get to, where then we can say, okay, like, I'm okay with this, like, if this is what you have to do in order to get through this, I'm willing to hold space for you, I don't mind, but you can't say this, this is my boundary here.
Speaker 1:So, like, for example, I'm feisty. I'm a very feisty person. You know that about me, right? I say what's on my mind. I cuss all the time blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 1:But one like boundary that my husband has with me is I can't call him names. So a little bit early on in the relationship, because I got very used to calling my ex names, my ex-husband names, because this is how I would fight and I am really good at finding the thing that hurts someone else. Finding the thing that hurts someone else, it's that sweet, sweet hypervigilance. You know what I mean. You can find the thing that's like their little Achilles heel, and so I have a name call. Or it's say like you're a dickhead or you're a bitch or whatever it is right, whatever the mean thing that's coming out of my mouth. Or I'm like don't be so stupid. Or something like that. Right, so early, early on in our relationship, we're having a fight and I said something like that like don't be so stupid. Later on, during one of our conversations about our fight, he had mentioned that that really hurt his feelings and that he would really like it if in future arguments we don't resort to name calling Now. Does that mean I was perfect at it during our next fight? No, because I'm still me and I still have triggers and I still have old attachment stances and I still have old habits. But what it meant was I could keep trying and it takes. I don't know.
Speaker 1:I think there was the research that someone did recently that says our brains are like children and it takes children at least like 10 to 12 times to learn something. So you know, you'd like tell your kid go hang up your coat. Go hang up your coat. Go hang up, oh my God, go hang up your freaking coat already, right, like. It's like takes a long time, and then they have to build the habit. It's the same thing in our relationships.
Speaker 1:So let's say you're with this person and they're threatening to break up and you tell them please don't do that again. They're going to do it again. So let's be mindful there. That's a great, because people be like but I told him what I needed, I told him my boundary and he's still doing it. It's like okay, it's going to take like 10 to 12 times. Let's just knock that out right now. It's going to become a habit and we have to help them break that and so that's all it takes Like, okay, great.
Speaker 1:So in this conversation with my husband, I'm like, great, I'm going to try really hard, but this is a habit of mine. Or you need to just like you have every right to walk away from me, say, oh, name calling, it's not happening, I'll be back when you're done, and you just walk away. And this is what you could do with this person, with this partner, with anyone in your life that is kind of threatening to do this and you can hold space for them, but that's also honestly, cheryl, asking a lot, that's asking you to be perfect in that moment, and so I want to challenge that and say that's not necessarily fair either to you, because I have so much empathy for it because I used to do that, like I 100% used to be that person to threaten to leave all the time, and so I understand and I don't take it personally like you said.
Speaker 2:I don't but first time it happened it's like I don't know how to be on the receiving end of it. So the first time it happened it's like I don't know how to be on the receiving end of it. So the first time it happened I handled it really well. It was very forgiving, very understanding. But then it happened again and I, like you just said it, it can take many tries or many times of this happening before somebody stops that behavior. And I think when it happened again I just really got into my avoidance side. I was like, oh, you're doing this again. You must really mean it this time.
Speaker 1:Great. So right there, you must really mean it this time. That is when you took it personal. Yeah, and that's okay to say, right, let's own it.
Speaker 2:Looking back, I don't, but in the moment I did.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which is beautiful. Actually, that's like such a powerful statement, looking like in the moment you took it personal. Having been removed with time you can see it's not, but your body in the moment took it personal and that's okay. But that's where we would work on and say okay. And and also, I just want to be clear maybe you know radical, maybe you're the type of person that you don't want someone in a relationship to constantly keep threatening breaking up. That's an okay like boundary to have. Yeah, but I know what you mean. But don't let your empathy for someone else prevent you from having boundaries. You can understand what someone is going through. That doesn't mean you have to put up with it and you can love them and they can love you, and that still doesn't mean that you're right for each other. It just means that you're in two different places right now.
Speaker 1:I remember like again having this empathy for someone but not condoning it Right. I remember way, way back in the day I was a new mother and my child would cry all the time, and it was one of the first times where I, all of a sudden, my empathy overtook myself and it's like I understood why women shake their babies. Yeah, and it was overwhelming. But just because I have empathy with it doesn't mean I condone it Right, yeah, that's what I want us to hit with in all of our relationships, because I think we do get in this rut and we see this a lot which is like he has an avoidant attachment or he has an anxious attachment or a disorganized attachment. It's not his fault. He had trauma. I could work with this. I can understand it.
Speaker 1:But here's the thing out of the world, 99.9% of the people are not bad people. They're all doing the best that they can with the tools that they have, even like really terrible people. They're not like you know the worst, like you can understand. If you understood their backstory, you would see why they got created the way that they are today and where all of their actions come from our defense mechanisms. But just because we saw some mass murderer get abused and beaten as a kid and so, as a result, this is his way of taking back control Does that mean all of a sudden we're like, oh my gosh, sweetheart, of course, please go murder those people. No, and I know I'm being like over, you know zealous. That's the point. So we can like kind of see the humor in it to an extent, but it's that. So I don't want our empathy to prevent us from setting boundaries. How does that?
Speaker 2:land. When I say that, yeah, you're absolutely right. I mean, I think when it still bothers you later, when I look back and see my avoidant behavior in that moment, then it bothers me because I don't know how to like you can't go back and fix that, you can't go back and redo that moment. What about it bothers you? Just that I wasn't secure in that moment and that I just reacted to avoidance with avoidance and you know I shut down. You know, like I have that habit of just like when I'm hurt then I'll shut down and then later I'll be like, oh, they weren't, that wasn't about me. You know what they were doing, that wasn't.
Speaker 2:And it's like they say say, you only get one chance to make a first impression, like you can't go back and behave securely when, just because you see it clearly later, you know you can't. Yeah, but what can you do? Now? You can talk to the person and say what you know was on your mind in that moment, what you really felt. But it's just hard to do when it's much later. True, but what else can we do?
Speaker 1:with that information. Do better next time. You're ruminating on this a lot. We've worked together for a little while now and I've heard this come up a couple times, which means I can tell there's a rumination on it. I can tell we haven't processed through it yet, which is beautiful. Keep bringing it up every single time. I'm so proud of you and also what think it's really trying to show you and let me know if this hits or resonates is you don't want to do that again. Yeah, so can you see how this rumination that you have over here about I can't believe I did that.
Speaker 1:I should have been more secure. I can't believe I fought avoidance with avoidance. I don't know what you're thinking, but like you know my mind like, oh, that was stupid of me. Why couldn't I have been better? Why did I mess this up? The thing is, is that's putting a lot of pressure on you back then? First off, that's expecting you to be perfect in that relationship, and that's just what I don't want to see happen. But then also you can see how it means, how important it is to you to get secure now. But are we going to be able to get secure if we're shaming ourselves for our past. Yeah, you're right, because if we could heal and shame, the whole world would be healed by now. What you thinking? I see your eyes.
Speaker 2:I don't know, I guess I just I think that same thing sometimes like oh, it must be rumination. And sometimes I wonder is it that this was different and this was more important to me? Or is it that I'm ruminating and that it's like in the anxious side of my disorganized attachment style? It's hard to tell sometimes. How do you mean more important to you? Just that connection was more important to me, more important how that I felt like more understood than I have in the past with other people in other relationships.
Speaker 1:That could still again be true. It could be an important relationship. I guess that's kind of what I wanted to know. I heard you saying like oh, this is more important, like more important, how more important? Such as oh, you think that there's a connection between the two of you and so the two of you are going to work out long term. Do you feel like there's like a soulmate connection going on there, something like that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, like wondering if I should still put effort there. Or is that just me being, you know, ruminating?
Speaker 1:anxious attachment style. I will always say if you feel like you need to go put effort into something, go put effort into it Always. If you feel like you left something on the table, go back, communicate, fight for what you want. Always. I will always say that that's good advice, but then actually having to go through with it, that's the difficult part, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think sometimes it takes a different kind of relationship, I guess, to realize that you're avoidant, sometimes Because in the past I was always avoidant, because, like in the past, like I was always avoidant, but less avoidant than the other person, and so I didn't really realize how avoidant I was, I think, until this relationship.
Speaker 1:Oh, that is so true. I didn't even know that for me it would have been the other way. Like I didn't understand that I had a disorganized attachment. I would have thought I was just plain avoidant until I started dating an avoidant. And then I turned hella anxious and I became someone. I never understood even who that girl was. Sometimes. I sometimes still am shocked by that person of me.
Speaker 1:So it's interesting what happens when you get into these different relationships, which is also why it's important sometimes to go get into new relationships, go learn who you are with other people. In fact, even if I don't personally attribute or subscribe to soulmates or twin flames or any of that kind of stuff, I personally believe that there's tons of people out there and we can make it work with honestly anyone Like if you just you know, if you figure it out. That being said, if you do believe in this concept of a soulmate or like this is your person or like it's going to really work. Sometimes it takes moving on, getting in a new relationship and then going back to the person. So this is kind of a dating idea that's out there, but you don't want your ex to be your rebound. Does that make sense, yeah.
Speaker 1:So like, if you really want to make it work with him, go out there, learn who you are, try other people figure this part of you out and then see, oh, he's the one I want. This is it Like I know, this is who I want. And then maybe you go back and maybe you missed your time and I don't know. And you know, life happens and there's cute movies out there about that kind of stuff. You know where, like people keep missing their timeframes and things. But who knows, maybe you, you get in enough relationships by the time the both of you are 60, you are meant to be together and that's it. But imagine you never lived your life that entire time you were waiting for him.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah. Yeah, I struggle sometimes with if I believe in that or not. You know that I kind of go back and forth, but I do think I believe in it enough that it makes me struggle, for sure.
Speaker 1:I agree, I'm kind of the same way. If we get into like a slightly philosophical conversation here, as you know, we start kind of wrapping up is I don't know what I believe in sometimes when it comes to soulmates or even like past lives or you know all of that kind of stuff Like. But all I know, all I know, is a connection is happening, like a true attachment bond is happening. I will say this 10 times over. You know I talk about my ex a lot but, like I say it because I need people to understand that just because I'm happily married now and I'm very secure and I'm living the best life I've ever been and I'm the happiest I've ever been, that does not mean that my soul, my heart, my body sometimes does not just get drawn back to that man. Yeah, it is wild and I cannot explain it. Sometimes I'm like, okay, maybe that means when we're both 70, we're going to find each other again and then we'll die in our deathbeds together. I don't know, maybe it means we were together in a previous life and that's that connection that's happening. But all I know and this is where I finally got to it all I know is if in the moment, while I'm waiting to figure this out, I'm not living my life. Then what am I doing? And it might also mean I miss my opportunity to be with him again, if I want to, later on.
Speaker 1:Now, the difference here is I think I do have a different mindset, where I also know, when I look at him in a logical, secure way, I'm not attracted to him. I'm attracted to something about him. I don't know what it is. Maybe it was the fact that I just got to live a free life with him when I was dating him and I got to take time off of being a mother, and maybe that's really what I'm missing half the time when I fantasize about him. I don't know what it is, and I also have this beautiful relationship right now. So if anyone's talking, they're like how the fuck can you be talking about this ex when you're married, your poor husband that's so unfair to him, blah, blah, blah. And I'd be like no, no, he knows all of this shit, because I'm in a secure relationship where I can tell him what I'm feeling and what I'm understanding. And hey, going back to our original conversation, he doesn't understand anything that I'm talking about. He doesn't know this feeling that I feel, but he's willing to listen and understand and talk to me about it and he's secure enough to know I would never do anything about it. And it doesn't mean I don't love him deeply with all of my heart just because I have these random thoughts every once in a while. That is how we take our big feelings and we turn them into secure relationships.
Speaker 1:Because I remember back in the day, if I would have had limerence or attraction to someone, I would have felt like I'm cheating on my husband. I would have felt shame, I would have felt guilt. Then I'd push my husband away because I'd feel bad about it. Then our conversations would go bad, our communication would go down, I'd start getting disdain and contempt in there. And this is what started happening. Because I get crushes a lot. I don't know what that is. I don't know if I'm just like some people are hypersexual, I'm like hyper crushable. I don't know what it is, but it's just like some hot guy walks into my class and I'm like, oh yeah, that's my new crush for the month.
Speaker 2:I have this like intense limerence at all times, see, and for me it's the opposite, like I never I mean I don't say never, but it's rare for me to like someone. So then, when I do when you do it feels that much more important, big deal, yeah.
Speaker 1:And so I think the key here for both of us, for anyone listening Don't shame that part of you, follow it and explore it. And so, yeah, if you want to go talk to him again, you know, and I think I've told you this before go talk to him again, make it work, move where you need to move, fight for him. If you want to fight for him, tell him you love him. I don't care what it is, put it all out on the line. Open up your heart, get rejected, fall flat on your face and then get back up and see what we can do next. But sometimes that's what it takes. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, all right. Is this a good place to start wrapping up for today? It is All right. Such good questions. Thank you so much, cheryl, for asking these questions.
Speaker 1:I think we hit on a lot of really tough and deep conversations and I don't even think I think we hit on a lot of really tough and deep conversations and I don't even think we fully explored the depth of a lot of these. So come back into the group at any time, ask these questions, because I think, after we've talked about this, what's going to happen is your mind is going to open up in other places. Now is what I'm hoping. So once that happens and another question pops up, come ask in the group. You know what I mean. Like that's the best part. Like wait, jen, hold on. Something else just opened up. Like what about this, what about this? And the more we keep exploring that, the better. I'm sure it will. Yeah, and thank you again so much for coming on and being vulnerable.
Speaker 1:And if anyone right now is listening to this and you want to come on and do this, do you just want to pick my brain on a podcast? You just want to be like I just don't understand what anxious attachment is. Why does this keep happening and why does my brain work this way? Because I keep reading about it but nothing makes any sense. Or maybe Cheryl's story made you realize you know you have a soulmate or you have a twin flame and you want to figure out what to do about that and you just want more help. Come on the podcast. You can get help with that. You can come and join us at any time. Just scroll on down to the show notes, click on the link to apply for a podcast coaching call and I would love to have you on. And again, cheryl, thank you so much. Is there anything else, any other questions or anything you want to say before we finish up? Not that I can think of now, but I'm sure I will think of some.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, when you think of them, let me know and I will talk with you all next week. Take care, as we wrap up today's conversation, always remember that healing is a journey, not a destination, and it is an honor to be a part of your healing journey. If you want to dig deeper into the topics we covered today, be sure to head over to our show notes, where you can find all of the valuable information mentioned in today's episode right there. And please remember to rate, review and subscribe if you enjoyed today's podcast. Your feedback means the world to us and helps others discover our podcast. Until next time, remember to speak up and speak honest.
