Are You Confusing Chemistry with Chaos? With Relationship Expert Bob Grant

Do you keep falling for the same emotionally unavailable men — and calling it a “spark”?
In this honest and empowering episode of Speak Honest, I sit down with relationship expert and bestselling author Bob Grant to unpack one of the most common traps women fall into: mistaking intensity for intimacy. We talk about why real love often feels unfamiliar, how to stop hiding your emotions to seem “low maintenance,” and what men actually find irresistible. If you’ve ever sabotaged a healthy relationship because it felt “too safe”... this one’s for you.

You might want to listen if:

• You’re drawn to the chase but bored by emotional availability
• You’ve been called “too much” (or feared that you were)
• You suppress your anger or sadness to keep the peace
• You want love but don’t know what your non-negotiables are
• You’re tired of trying to prove your worth and ready to feel secure instead

More About Our Guest!
Bob Grant is a clinically trained relationship expert, podcaster, and bestselling author of The Woman Men Adore. He’s the founder of Relationship Headquarters, where he specializes in helping women emotionally connect with a man, attract true love, get married, and, for those in a relationship, get unstuck and begin connecting as a couple.

• Email: bobgrant@relationshipheadquarters.com
• Facebook:  Women Men Adore Facebook Group
• Instagram 
• Linked In  
• Blog   
• YouTube
• Podcast: Bob Grant's RelationshipHeadquarters Podcast    
• Summit: Love that Lasts a Lifetime

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DISCLAIMER: Speak Honest podcast content is informational, not professional or medical advice. Jenn is an ICF relationship coach, not a licensed therapist. Consult health professionals for specific concerns. Client opinions do not reflect Speak Honest’s stance. We aim for accuracy but are not liable for errors or outcomes fr...

Transcript

Hello, and welcome to Speak Honest! I am your host and certified relationship coach, Jennifer Noble. It has been my passion for over a decade, to help women like you heal what’s been holding you back from having the relationships you deserve. Are you struggling with a relationship where you can’t seem to voice your emotions, needs, and boundaries without having it blow up in your face? Then you have found the right podcast my friend. Get ready for practical tips, empowering truths, and honest conversations. Now, let’s dive in.

Jenn Noble

Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of Speak Honest. I'm Jenn Noble, your go-to relationship coach. And on today's episode, I have the honor of chatting with Bob Grant. Now I first met Bob when I was doing an interview with him for the Love That Lasts a Lifetime Summit. And if you want to learn more about that summit, you can scroll down to the show notes. I'm going to put some links down there to explain more about it. But it was such a delight to get to talk with him and to meet up with another relationship coach that really matches with my values of coaching and my modalities and my understanding of attachment styles. And so we decided we wanted to get him on the podcast here. And I am so so excited to talk to him. 

So I want to tell you a little bit about Bob. He is a clinically trained relationship expert, podcaster and bestselling author of The Women Men Adore. He's the founder of the relationship headquarters where he specializes in helping women emotionally connect with a man, attract true love, get married and for those in a relationship, get unstuck and begin connecting as a couple. Now, if you want to learn more about Bob, after you've listened to my conversation, I want you to head over to relationshipheadquarters.com and you're to be able to find out all of his information, find out what he can do and be able to schedule a 15 minute chat with him. 

If he is someone that you are interested in working with, I highly recommend having an opportunity to work with Bob. I think he is a fantastic relationship coach and someone that is really helping lift women up, which I think is an amazing opportunity to have. And as well as all of the other stuff, he also has a free guide that he is offering, which is called What Men Find Irresistible in a Woman. And again, I'll put that link in the show notes. But as you're listening to my conversation with Bob, I want you to really listen to how we're talking about how women can get in those healthy relationships, how to have that softness with the authenticity. You know, how to not be flaw finding and looking for all these ways in which to break up with him and to really figure out what are your non-negotiables and be dating this man until he crosses one of those. And so as you're listening to this, if you're wondering like, my goodness, how do I even figure out what my non-negotiables are? I highly recommend scheduling a chat with myself or with Bob and we can help you through that. Utilize the resources that you have, relationship coaches are an amazing resource. 

They help you get over those humps. They help you get over those little bumps in the road where you're just not communicating properly or you started dating someone new, but now you're too into your head about it. That's what we're here for. We're slightly different than therapists. We don't necessarily need to be doing talk therapy for one hour a week. Instead, we have unique opportunities. We have community programs. In fact, I know at Speak Honest, we have the Relationship Reboot Program. And for right now, it's only $97 to join the membership. And you get access to up to three hours of live group coaching. You get a 12-module program that will take you from insecure to secure communication. And all of this is possible when you work with a relationship coach. So check out Bob, check out myself, and I hope you enjoy this conversation.

Jenn Noble 

Thank you so much, Bob, for agreeing to come on the podcast. I'm so excited to have a chance to talk to you again. How's everything going? How's life going?

Bob Grant

Hi, Jenn, thanks for having me. It's going good, very busy. We have a lot of stuff planned and you are part of that and something we have coming up.

Jenn Noble

Yes, I got a chance to chat with you when we were talking for a big summit coming up. So excited. We can talk about that later. But it's been such a joy getting to know you and getting to know how it is that you coach in relationships. And so something I thought would be really great is to have you on. Now, I did a little intro before so people know about you, but I'd love to hear in your words. Tell me a little bit about yourself. What's your passion? Why is it that you're a relationship coach?

Bob Grant

So I started off as a therapist in the hospital and I loved learning all the stuff. I know we talked, you were talking about attachment and those things that brought back memories of all the things we would deal with. But then when I went to outpatient, there was a couple of clients and they were in their 30s and had relationship problems. They just couldn't get married. And my first thought was compared to schizophrenia and stuff I'd seen, I didn't say it's my thought.

How hard could this be? I mean, I didn't, I was young then. But they were really struggling. And it was a major heartache for them. And then the stuff that I had learned and taught about what's going on internally and how much that affects relationships or gets in the way, they responded well to that. And one of them happened to be a hairstylist and she told everyone. So all of sudden now I'm seeing all of her friends and that became my specialty. I just like working with them.

But it was almost like they chose me instead of I chose them. And I've had results ever since then and just really enjoy clients, especially once they have the breakthroughs that you and I get to see with clients.

Jenn Noble

It's just one of the best parts of really being able to do that. And I love how you also kind of fell into it in a way where you just kind of found this natural way, this niche that you have, where you're able to talk about this stuff and help people get them to hear you in a way that helps them. And so you work specifically with women, is that right? That's great. And you wrote a book that said the title is The Women Men Adore. I love that title so much. so because I want to talk about that, I really want to talk today about what is it that men want.

Jenn Noble

Right? Like let's hear from a male perspective. I talk to women all day. I'm a woman myself and that's all I know. But I know in the work that you do, you often talk to women about being able to be themselves, but being able to also be soft in that. Not in a fake way, not in some sort of, you know, I think like not in a game playing way, but just to be truly soft. Can you talk us through that?

Bob Grant

Yes, and I appreciate as we were talking last time about how you emphasize authenticity. And one of the examples I give women is, said, imagine if there was a little girl and she could be a stranger and she was sad or scared. I said, what would you do with her? I said, I don't have to give you a script. You'd probably take her by the hand. You'd maybe sit down next to her, but whatever it was, you'd be authentic with her because you would just care about how she felt. But if your heart was a little girl and I could go inside your mind and listen to the way you talk to yourself, I would probably hear things like, why are you complaining? Don't be so weak. Don't be so needy. You know, don't show any emotion. And I know this because in one of our programs, the Campfire program, is part of it is doing a journal online and I'll go in there and read with them. And I'm amazed at how harsh women talk to themselves. I mean, I kind of knew it, but I've careerless. I mean, I was just blown away because if they ever talk to their friends that way they would just be mortified. And when they do that, they don't realize that that sort of erects these walls that come up. And that gets into attachment styles, it gets into coping skills, and they think they're keeping it all secret, but they're really not. And it shows up, men can feel it, men just don't necessarily know how to describe it really well. Something seems awful.

Jenn Noble

Tell me more about that. How does that show up in the relationship? What is the man feeling or sensing?

Bob Grant

So in general, when a woman is, I don't mean like flat, but when she's guarded or she emphasizes being strong, she emphasizes not being weak, nothing wrong with strong, nothing wrong with being responsible. But the problem is something painful will come up or something she doesn't like. And so as not to come across as weak, I'm going to act like that doesn't bother me. I'm not going to complain. The problem is the signal that it sends to a man is, oh, that didn't bother her and he assumes she's fine. And what I tell women a lot is, I said, you're giving him the wrong impression that you're tougher than you are, that you're stronger than you are. And I said, I know you can be strong, but I don't know that you want to have to be like that all the time. You know, like bringing work home.

Jenn Noble

Can we stop down on that real quick? I want hear you say that again, because I thought that was really powerful. You said, we're giving them the impression that we're tougher than we are. Gosh, that was like that. That gave me chills. I thought that was really powerful. Please keep going.

Bob Grant

No, so I mean, I'm glad you can feel that, because that's really what I'm after is for someone to feel it. Because as a man, that doesn't make me think less of a woman. I mean, oftentimes I'll have clients and they'll start sharing something really painful, especially when I was at an office and they would start crying. Now, I get it. They're embarrassed to cry and they're embarrassed to cry in front of a man. And most of the time they will say, I'm sorry. And I learned after a while to say, sorry for what?

I'm crying now. And I would always tell them, I said, you crying doesn't bother me. I said, if anything, I'm flattered you feel safe enough to cry in front of me. I said, I don't view it as a weakness and my impression view doesn't change. But they've heard most likely from others, don't do that. Don't be weak. And as though there are parts of them that are bad, there are certain emotions that are bad they shouldn't feel. Just like being hungry could be bad for some people or being scared could be bad. Well, sometimes, know, scared is really helpful. Sometimes scared keeps us safe. And so that sort of detaching from who they are versus who they're supposed to be, that gap men feel, and it feels disconnected. It's not so much that she's awful, it's that it's hard to feel close to her, that she may be fun.

Jenn Noble

That makes sense, because you're not being vulnerable. You're not really being yourself. But I also see it from the woman's side because for so long, you know, we are almost taught that men don't want to see our emotions. You know, they want us to be these perfect little women, these, you know, perfect little picture, perfect things. And if we cry around them, if we do have an emotion, then all of sudden we get this negative feedback that says like, you're too much, you're difficult, you're annoying, so shut it down. But I think the difference, and I think we're both saying this, is that It depends on the emotion that you're bringing into the relationship. Right, so if we're constantly complaining and crying to our partner because we don't feel loved or we think they hate us or we need all that reassurance, yeah, that is a little bit clingy and needy and it leans into that anxious attachment. But we're talking about real emotion, please, yeah.

Bob Grant

I was going to add, yes, so what you're saying with the real emotion, because what I've told them is I said, there's no good or bad emotions. That's like saying there's good or bad hunger or there's good or bad sleep. said, there's no good or bad. I said, but what men pick up on, and you brought up a good example, is when something, they don't say it this way, feels disproportionate. So if someone is complaining constantly,

Usually I find that's the result of things accumulating. So something bothers me last week, I don't do anything, continues to build, continues to build. And by the time someone complains, they're full. They're not a complainer. They've just stuffed it for too long. And what was small to begin with, now has become bigger because they have to take more and more stuff to push it down, push it down, push it. I see you nodding your head. Tell me.

Jenn Noble

Yeah, because the more you push, the more you push. I know, think a lot of us know this analogy, but it's the beach ball thing where it's like, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine until I'm not fine. And the next thing you know, you know, I'm blowing up at my husband because he didn't put his shoes away and he stuck them in the hallway again and I'm losing my damn mind on this band, right? But that's because I didn't say anything the five other times or the other time when he didn't maybe kiss me goodbye for work or the times when we haven't been on dates for three weeks. All of this is building. I'm afraid to have an opinion about that stuff. And so I take it out on the shoes.

Bob Grant

Yes. And then if I take it out like that, now I feel bad. So I start the process all over again of restuffing and restuffing. And then we all do magical thinking. This is not just women I'm saying this to. But then I'll magically think there's a man somewhere that's going to understand me, who I won't have to do this with. I see you smiling because you talk with this all the time. And this is not judging. mean, men do this same thing just a different way.

And there is no hero to rescue us from that because that becomes a father. Or if it's a guy that's a mom, and that's what a father's supposed to do. My daughter was three, supposed to do that kind of stuff. Overlook things, be the bigger man, because I am the bigger man. I'm dad. Don't want to do that with a partner. And vice versa, women don't want to be a mother to the guys they love.

Jenn Noble

Yeah, I never thought about it the other direction, but us women, we are, we're looking for someone to come to save us, to heal us, that father figure to kind of come in and just protect us. Many of us haven't had that growing up. Many of us, you know, had the fathers who put us down or told us to stop crying or left us or worse. And so here we are seeking this in men. And then when they're not perfect about it or they're not exactly what it is that we needed because they're also human.

You know, they're not going to be perfect. They're also autonomous beings. they say, you know, yeah, we, we this, this, I see this a lot in disorganized attachment is a thing called flaw finding. And it's not just like, you know, what we see in Chandler on friends where he like looks at people's noses or moles on their faces. It's like deep stuff of like, he never puts his shoes away or, you know, he, he leaves his coffee mug. He leaves a ring on the coffee table every single day and it pisses me off. This is flaw finding. This is just ways in which women are constantly pushing away this really beautiful man in their life because he's not saving her the way she thinks she needs to be saved. And so I think this is such an important conversation to be having.

Bob Grant

No, I like that when you talk about fall off. I don't think I'd heard that before. That's very interesting. Because as you're saying that, I'm thinking of someone in our, we've got a Facebook group and she's finally found the guy. They're about to get engaged and she makes a post and she's like, oh my gosh, help me. Because all of a sudden I'm scared to death. And you can see what's coming up. It's the only man that can hurt her is the man that gets close. Not the guy that's unavailable. He can't hurt her because he's not.

So she can long for him and wish for him and fantasize. This guy's showing up, he's stepping up, about to buy a ring. And she doesn't know what to do with it because going back to attachment styles, she's afraid he's going to leave her like all the other men have. She's going to and she's looking through those lenses. And some of the normalizing is you're going to be scared when you meet someone wonderful. Let's normalize that. That's supposed to happen. Where you're not going to have no doubts.

The person you love is the one that can hurt you more than anyone else, that there's no getting around it because you trust them. It doesn't mean they will, but they could. I like you talking about that talking it through part of actually being intentional about, no, this is a good fit for me. This is something that's good even though it may feel unfamiliar because he's not treating me like dirt. I'm not having to wonder how long he's going to call again or when he's going to text.

Jenn Noble

Yeah. And that part can be, when we're used to that, like I was just used to that, right? I was used to dirt for so long. I think I call it like trash pizza, right? Which is like, if you are starving for so long and you don't know where you're going to get your next meal from and you've been starving for weeks at a time and somebody comes along and brings you pizza out of the trash, you're going to devour that thing. Like it's the greatest thing you've ever eaten. But you don't realize that you have the potential to go out there and have a four course meal somewhere.

You just need to learn how to get to it yourself. And so, yeah, we talk about that a lot, which is this idea of like not settling for trash pizza, right? Not settling for that guy who doesn't text you back, for that guy who doesn't take you out to places or makes you plan everything. That's not settling. Settling is, you know, maybe he's not as tall as you want it. Maybe, you know, he drinks his coffee with a lot of sugar and you wish he, you know, would get a little bit healthier, right?

These are little things, but the big things, we have to really be mindful of them. We have to really look at our relationships and find what are those things and what are non-negotiables. Now, do you work with that with women at all? Do you really try to figure out what are those things that you should be standing up for and what are those things you can let go of?

Bob Grant

I do, and what we do, and I use the same term, non-negotiables, because I think it fits so well, is what we do is an exercise, because I think they're different for each person. There's the general stuff, a guy that's faithful. Some of them will put, I want a guy that's not going to hit me. I'm like, I'm going to give you that one. Maybe that's your pet, but that should be a standard. I said, but they're usually unique to you, and we have them brainstorm for a couple of days, and write it out, and whittle it down. And then we go into

These are qualities that I consider like above average. So is kind a big deal to you? Yes, we'd all like someone kind, but is for you, you really important that he's kind or is it strong? Hopefully every man is strong. But I mean, like, is that a big deal? I've got a buddy that was in the army. He's Mr. Ranger Danger. He's, if you want to feel safe, just be around Greg. He's now, is he going to be the best listener? No, doesn't mean he can't listen, but he's not going to be like what I do. He's not that. So that's not his strong suit.

And we want, I want a woman to know this because this is how a man's going to show off for you. This is how he's going to impress you because he naturally does it. So if someone likes a good listener, I'm your guy. Someone like someone that's always going to look out for danger, that'd be Greg. And once we know those three are, what I ask him to do is I say, let's keep dating someone or at least give him a chance until we know he violates one of those. Cause I'm trying to get them away what they call intuition. Which isn't really intuition. Yeah, see you, shaking your head.

Jenn Noble 

Yeah, this really tracks with something I teach as well, so keep going.

Bob Grant

no, no, I'd like to hear what you-

Jenn Noble

Yeah, no, it's that, it's the con- I do this as well, we talk about our non-negotiables and yeah, not the obvious, like, you know, no cheating, no hitting, I even can say, you know, if you want to have like no smoking or whatever it is, but one of those big things, like maybe no yelling, like whatever, I honestly don't mind a yeller. It's just not a- it doesn't bother me.

Bob Grant

Yeah, yeah, same thing. yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And see, that's true, because some women, that's not a big deal too. That's why I just tell them, yeah, but that's a great point, is it?

Jenn Noble

Yeah. And the same thing, like I don't mind if my husband is friends with his exes. It's just never bothered me. These are things that don't bother me, but if they bother you, that's okay. These are your non-negotiables. So, and then I get this, this is the question I get all the time from women, which is like, how, when will I know to keep dating him? Cause I went through this as well with my husband. I tried to break up with this man like 20 times, the entire course of the time I was dating him because I was still healing my attachment style at the time. And I didn't understand.

Jenn Noble

how good he was for me. He was boring in my brain. know, he actually showed up when he said he was going to. He treated me really well. And my little disorganized self was like, I can't handle this. This is too safe. This is too secure. So I kept trying to break it up. Like, well, how do I know? don't feel those butterflies in my stomach. You know, how do I know what that intuition is? And that's when I learned butterflies are a trauma response. Butterflies, with all of these other toxic men I was dating, was me just trying to, as we talked about, you know, that father figure, that person that's gonna come in and save me, or in a different way, someone I'm gonna earn my worth through.

Bob Grant 

So you mean someone I'm going to resolve past injuries with this current relationship now?

Jenn Noble

with this, yeah, if I can get you to love me, then I've won, right? If I can get you to love me, if I can figure you out just perfectly and know exactly what you need and what dinner you need to eat and what I need to do and how I need to do all this stuff sexually, like, right, if I can figure that out and you love me and you stay, then I'm worth it. I'm worthy, right? But we hear that and you hear that spoken out loud and it makes me wanna gag now.

Bob Grant - Relationship Coach 

Yes! But that's part of the power. I love the idea of speaking out loud, which I like. We talked the first time about how you would speak stuff out loud and how much that empowers someone because I know just keeping our head, we can create monsters just without even realizing what's going on.

Jenn Noble

Yeah, there's power in just speaking it out and really kind of speaking that truth and really speaking up to say, look, listen, this is what's happening and it's okay. But when it comes to trying to figure out, I kept dating my husband until he crossed one of these non-negotiable. So I love that you do this with women. Yes. I think you would have been a great coach for me back in the day when I was dating him. Yeah.

Bob Grant

Yes, I love that. love that. No, but you get it. Because I found that works better than anything else. Until our brain and heart catch up together to see, is this... Because if it's not good for you, let's don't stick it out. That's not good for him either. But you said you wanted someone, don't know which yours were, but probably resilience one of them, if he stuck with you. But whatever the quality of the question.

Jenn Noble 

Yeah, compassionate, communicative. For me, it was communication. I needed to be able to be myself and be able to be seen without being put down by that. And this man, I still can't get over how much he just embraces who I am. Like, it's weird to me sometimes. Like, sometimes I'll get mad at him because he just unabashedly accepts me. And I'm like, you, stop accepting this.

Bob Grant

Yes.

That sounds like Chandler.

Jenn Noble

I'm always related with Chandler. Let me tell you, I'm a very avoidant woman. Yes.

Bob Grant

That's funny. But see, I like how you describe that because without that authenticity with yourself, you wouldn't have known that. And that's vulnerable to do that, but that actually helps us get what we want. That's a perfect example you just gave, is knowing that about myself, I have this tendency as opposed to I have to kill that part of me. I may go away, no, I've got this tendency, I can work on it, continue to work on it. But if we can put our arm around that part of us instead of trying to kill it, then it calms down.

Jenn Noble

Yeah, talk me through that more. How do we embrace that part of ourselves? Like, how do we love that part of ourselves?

Bob Grant

Yes, so let's go back to something we were doing earlier. Let's pick anger. I think anger is the most powerful emotion. At least it's the most scary for a lot of people. And we'll distinguish between anger and a temper. So a temper is what you do, and a temper is bad. Anger is just a feeling, a powerful one. And it's there to let us know someone's hurting us or they're inadvertently hurting us. And so part of embracing it is I have permission for all of my feelings, just like you would do with a little girl. Just like you would do a client, just like we would do with our sister or brother, for some reason. mean, we still accept our closest friends if we don't go days in bed. And part of that acceptance is that I can feel anything because what I feel is not who I am. I mean, if I get angry, my ears don't get bigger. If I get sad, my nose, I don't change who I am. It's just my feelings go up and down. And the reason I want women to be good at this, especially with anger is, I want a man to see you angry because what he's used to is going to be different with you. Because I want him to see you angry and just what you said, angry and you're safe. I want him to be furious with you with something, hopefully not much, and him wait for something to get thrown or screamed at. And when you don't do that, he'll say, is that all? You can say, yeah, well, I'm mad at you. That's how he feels safe with you. that's what you do when you're angry as opposed to never getting angry.

That does not make him feel safe. That makes him, my gosh, what's she like when she does get angry? Or what's she like when she does get sad? We want him to see this and see that she'll be okay. I mean, you can blubber, I'm not making fun, but you can just follow up like this, but men aren't used to that. If a man does that, the world's coming to an end. So I want men to see this and the women to be able to show that to them. And if they practice with anger primarily, That's one of the fastest ways I know to practice that self love and accept.

Jenn Noble

I love that. So what I hear you saying is show that side of yourself now, especially in those early stages of dating, because it's really going to be able to see even if, if the two of you mesh in how he handles your anger. So, so give the anger properly. Like I'm frustrated with you right now and not push it down and push it down and push it down. So it does come out blubbering. It does come out as throwing things or earth walking out or slamming doors or passive aggressiveness. But if you can just honestly give your anger to a man, both of you are going to feel safer in that relationship because if he can be a safe container to hold your anger and you could be a safe space to not blow up him completely. Is that what I'm hearing you saying?

Bob Grant

So when you're saying this, I'm thinking about you're a good example when you say, look, I'm bubbly. I'm full of energy and that's who I am. You didn't say this, but I'll fill the gaps. Do I have to keep an eye on that at times? Sure. But anyone's gift, you have to keep an eye on. I mean, someone that's really funny at times is going to stick their foot in their mouth. That's just going to happen. So maybe they have to keep an eye on that some, but let's don't throw the baby out with the bathwater and just stuff all that. And so if we're doing this with him and I permission to be angry, that I want him to see that. The other thing is I want both of you to see is the way he deals with anger something I want to deal with. You alluded earlier about, I don't care if someone screams. You know that about yourself. That's what, and see without any anger or awareness of it, you're not going to know that. So it's obviously you've taken a look inside. Then you don't have to guess as much because you know it's not a good fit. I'm assuming just been ignoring you all the time. I'm just driving you bananas.

Jenn Noble

Yeah. Yeah. No, that's such a good point. Cause if you, if you're feisty, right? I love, I love working with feisty women because I think for so long we've been taught, you know, be smaller, don't take up space, stop being so much, all of those kinds of things. And so I love working with those women and being able to tell them, look like,

Yes, know, my over the top nature, the fact that I can like literally bounce into the house like Tigger and I'm just like jumping off the roof and I'm talking about all this stuff and I'm interrupting my husband and I have ADHD. So it's like, I forget the things he says and I never pay attention. And he adores this part of me. I've had past partners who have literally made fun of me, who have told me, my God, like, do you seriously have to be this much right now? It's 6 a.m. Like, no, like that.

When I heard that back in the day, I thought they're right. I need to fix myself. I need to change who I am in order to win them over. So I love all of this. It's not even just about the best parts of yourself, which is what I help teach women. But I think my favorite thing I'm really hearing you say is show those maybe not so pleasant parts of yourself too. Show the parts where you get angry, where you cry, where you break down, where you're sad and let him help you through that.

Bob Grant

Yes. And what you said is a good point because if you have a past partner that's putting you down, what I love about the emotions is that whatever I try to get women to be in touch with, not precisely, but is that sad? Is it embarrassed? I'm like, when you're feeling it, that's a cue to slow down. I know you want to think. I get it. I do to slow down. Just slow down over here because that doesn't feel good. And as you feel that, you'll realize, I don't want to be with someone that's going to do this. So feelings are always faster than thinking, always. And a of times we can't figure out what we're feeling. So the tendency is like, I'm talking faster now, I want to just drrrr We don't, or I'll say something, whatever, you have no trouble standing up for her.

Jenn Noble

Yeah, I say this a lot and I ask because a lot of my clients will have children. And so it's like, okay, if you had your little girl, if you had your daughter and you just watched a man treat her that way, what would be happening in your body? Yeah. And it's like, would you not want to punch that man in the face? Like, right? Like as a mother protecting her little one, like you would look at that man and be like, run. Yeah. Like don't ever talk to my daughter that way.

Bob Grant

Where have you been? Where have you been? You're speaking my language. That's awesome. Yes without a second thought, without any thought of guilt or, my gosh, yes, and no apologies.

Jenn Noble

But yet, all of a sudden, someone says that to us, and we're like, you're right. Yes. my god, I'm so sorry. I am too much. I will fix that, honey. Please. You know. And then...

Bob Grant

But the encouraging part is that they know how to do it. Just because with your example, if you can do it with a little girl, part of you knows how to do this. Because I get a lot that say, I don't know how to do it. like, yes, you do. I have to know to say it that way. I'll say, but you do. Let me borrow your daughter. This won't take but one minute. And instantly, the hairs on the back start to rise. You can see that face you made. was like, oh, I don't know.

Jenn Noble

And all of a sudden, yeah, and even if you don't have a daughter, if you're listening right now, you're like, this isn't resonating means, then think of your bestie. You would never, if you were on it, if you were third wheeling, you were out on a date and your bestie was sitting with her partner and he turned to her and was like, do you really have to sing that loud? If we're at a bar or something like that, you'd be like, excuse me, sir.

Bob Grant

Yeah. yeah. That makes me cringe just thinking about it.

Jenn Noble

And yet, and yet it happens and I see these women and something you touched on before I want to bring up again, and this is a big thing that I'm trying to get women to switch their thought process here because oftentimes they'll come to us as coaches and they'll be like, but why is he doing this? You know, why is he treating me this way? Like, why is he talking to me like this? Why, why does this keep happening? And I just want to encourage these women to flip that script. And instead of asking, Why is he doing that? Ask yourself, is this what you want?

Bob Grant

I love that. I love that. It does. Yes.

Jenn Noble

Mm-hmm, and it goes along with what you were saying about with non-negotiables and the hardest part is I ask is this what you want and they're like Well, I don't know because they don't know what they want yet, right? They don't they don't have their identity sorted out They just think I need someone to love me and as soon as that person loves me then I'm complete But that's not how we find a relationship is it?

Bob Grant 

See, that's ... No, at least that's not what I've seen. And to your point is good. I've had so much more success once we dial in what's a good fit for someone. Some of them want to just jump in, I get it. They're going through a crisis and let's solve that. That's fair. But otherwise, I don't know how to help you find what you're looking for. Because what I don't want to do is based on intensity. Let's don't do that. Or what they call intuition.

A lot times as a substitute for intensity, I tell them, said, look, I'm intuitive as a therapist or counselor, because I do this all the time, but as a mechanic, I'd have no clue. My intuition would get the card to break with what I would twist and turn. So intuition is based on knowledge and familiarity. can be intuitive with people we're married with. We can be intuitive with family members. But new dates early on? I mean, pay attention to how you're feeling, but let's be careful about the interpretations. He smiles, so he's really kind. Maybe, maybe not. He may just have great teeth. But our brain projects that onto someone because it feels good, right?

Jenn Noble

Mm, I love this. So intuition over intensity. So intensity is that kind of that butterflies and our stomach feeling, right? That trauma response that we have, that's our attachment patterns I see oftentimes. If after two dates, you're sitting here telling me he's the man for you, I would tell you to run as fast as you possibly can. And that's what I hear you say and I love this, intensity. And that's what that intensity is. If you have a lot of intensity going on in your body, then check that.

Right. Just keep an eye on it because instead what you want more is a little bit of a soft knowing. Right. Of a I will often say intuition, intuition we can sit on for eons. Intuition we can sit on for hours, days. doesn't. Do you think he's cheating on you? OK, fine. Intuition states you lean back and you wait and you see and you figure things out and you ask questions and you're calm about it. Intensity. I love this word now. Right. Or that feeling of like, my God, he's cheating. I got to go look at his phone that you get that intense need, that's where we have to calm back down.

Bob Grant

Yes, I swear like we've read each other's notes because I've said that same thing because that's the intensity. always tell people I use the same word to wait because if it's intense, I got to do something now. And it feels just like a feeling, but a real feeling doesn't mind waiting. Your point is perfect because it doesn't mind. When I work at the hospital, there's a reason why when someone goes in for, you know, suicidal or something, we make them wait 48 hours because we know after 48 hours for the most part.

Jenn Noble

I didn't know, it's so fun, that's why I love talking with you.

Bob Grant

It's not going to be as intense. Just time alone does it. It keeps us from making bad choices, which is what I with the breakup. We don't want to be calling them right away. don't, just, we don't want to be doing anything. You're going to say stuff you're going to regret. Maybe there's a chance to save this, but not if you go in there guns blazing with fear, demanding or whatever, or men, you know, going in there begging, pleading. Don't do that. Don't. It's not to make fun of us. Just I'm scared and I'm overwhelmed. And that's not the most accurate. So I love that part about waiting like you're talking.

Jenn Noble

Yeah, I think that's so good. Well, as we're up our conversation right now, and we've talked about so much good stuff, please let my listeners know where can they find you. Because if they're out there right now and they're listening to you and they just want to jump in to your program or to whatever it is that you have to offer, I really want them to be able to go and do that. Because the most important thing here for anyone listening is that you find what you need to heal yourself. Because if we all can keep healing, no matter if that's with me, if that's with Bob, if that's with anyone else that you know, What it looks like is we all start healing and we all start getting better. And that's a benefit for everybody. So please let them know how can they find you, Instagram, socials, all that.

Bob Grant

I appreciate that. It's been a lot of fun being here. If they go to relationshipheadquarters.com, that's got access to all our socials. I'm Bob Grant. I'm on Instagram. I'm on YouTube. Same thing, Bob Grant, Relationship Headquarters. And if they go to Relationship Headquarters, I have a free 15-minute evaluation. And it's not just a sea of coachings for you. If there's something simple we can solve, we will. It's a chance to find out just real specific about what's going on. What can we do? Just like when Jen and I were talking here.

It's more important to know what someone really wants or needs more so than just, here's my widget, here's my thing. Let's just give this to you. So if that speaks to you, I'd love to get a chance to meet you.

Jenn Noble

I think that's a great idea. think everyone right now go and schedule one of those 15 minute calls with Bob. If you'll get an opportunity to talk with him, his wisdom is just, it's outstanding. I highly recommend it. I also know that he has a free guide, which is what men find irresistible in a woman that I'm going to go ahead and put a link in the show notes as well for anyone that wants to grab that. Cause all of this information is going to help you find that partner in your life that's going to enhance your life and really lift you up, which is.

Again, just my passion and my mission in life is to help as many women as possible find this. Thank you so much, Bob, for coming on and chatting with me today. And I can't wait to talk with you later.

Bob Grant

Thanks, Jenn. I enjoyed being here.

Jenn Noble 

Take care.

Jenn Noble

I am so happy that I got to have this conversation with Bob and that we just got to sit down and chat with again. He's just so easy to talk to. We align in so many ways as relationship coaches that I can absolutely see us having him on again and having other combinations together, right? Being able to collaborate in other ways, which I think is fantastic. In fact, I'm to be on his podcast in a little bit as well. So if you want to check out his podcast, it's

Relationship Headquarters with Bob Grant. I think it's a fantastic resource to add to your repertoire of listening and growing and just learning. So that way you can really become the woman that it is I know you are. And so if you enjoy this conversation with Bob, I highly recommend jumping over to his website, relationshipheadquarters.com, grabbing the free guide in the show notes and looking him up.

And also, again, if you are just out there and you're listening to the podcast and you're like, I just want to get connected, Jen. I want to be able to be with other like-minded women. I want to heal my attachment style. Beautiful. We would love to have you in the relationship reboot program. Reach out to me, check it out in the show notes. All of the information is there. And I will speak to you all next week. Take care.

As we wrap up today’s conversation, always remember that healing is a journey, not a destination. And it is an honor to be a part of your healing journey. If you want to dig deeper into the topics we covered today, be sure to head over to our show notes, where you can find all of the valuable information mentioned in today’s episode right there. And please remember to rate, review, and subscribe if you enjoyed today’s podcast. Your feedback means the world to us and helps others discover our podcast. Until next time, remember to speak up and Speak Honest.